Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello Pals,

I was thinking about using a western cedar or a great Sitka spruce for finger picking guitar???
Whick do you think would be the BEST choice?

Where can I purchase either choice...master grade only!!

walter

AC Tonewoods, an OLF sponsor, has great sitka. They also probably carry cedar, as does Larry Davis of Gallery Hardwoods. I'm not sure, but I think Shane of High Mountain Tonewoods also has cedar, as well as Lutz spruce, which is a sitka hybrid of sorts. Then there's the usual suspects, like the Zootman and others here who probably carry all of the above.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Walter,
My favorite is cedar. But I'm sure I'm the odd man out. I think the best combo is Cedar/Koa. I had really good luck with that combo, and have played a number of other cedar/koa's that sound fantastic. I got some killer cedar on ebay about 2 years ago, but that person is no longer selling any. I heard that Dan Minard has some really nice cedar. Send me an email if you want his contact information.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

bright crisp highs Sitka.

warm overall tone Cedar

I'd agree with Tracy and would go with cedar or even redwood on this one for a fingerpicker's guitar but it's mostly in how you handle the wood. I have gotten some really nice cedar from Ed at AC tonewoods (OLF Sponsor) and also from the young Canadian gent who used to hang around here(can't remember his name). One of these days I'll get around to trying some of Shane's lutz stuff but right now I'm stuck in this mahogany/red spruce ladder rut . Not really a rut but it takes a while to refine something that's really supposed to be kinda rough.John How38995.5461921296

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I'd plump for Sitka anyday. It's an all round good egg..if you want to introduce warmer tones into the palate, I would prolly use a wood to achive that via the back and sides.

John, your looking for the name Jason at CV tonewoods.

His parents are the ones with the masive tonewood company doing maple body sets and cedar tops. Most of it all goes to China, but they do sell to north american builders too.

CVtonewoods use to be a sponsor, but not anymore as Jason is up in northern Alberta (just like Graham Steward)in the oil boom.

Ed at AC will have some nice sitka and cedar Walter. If you only wanted AA-AAA, I would give you a set, I have about 12 sets here.

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I play primarily fingerstyle. I like western red cedar a lot better than sitka for fingerstyle.
Colonial Tonewoods, Allied Lutherie and LMI has some master grade. Others OLF suppliers probably do also.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Walter, I'm going to sound like a Sitka pimp, but it'll do whatever you want it to do. I've had good success with WRC, but my best luck, and most satisfying instruments, were built with Sitka. I like hearing little "bells" going off when a guitar is fingerpicked, and Sitka delivers.
Let me also add that it's good to see you around.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Sitka pimp[/QUOTE]

Now that's funny!

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

I have been very impressed with the Lutz Spruce from Shane. I build primarily for Finger Style and blues players and use Lutz, Sitka and Red Spruce

Walter I going to throw some new kindling on this fire. The best overall playing fingerstyle guitar I have built or played was Koa toped/EIRW back and sides. wounderful highs and a nice warm but not muted mid range and a bass that you felt in your body like a nice shot of 30 year old whiskey going down.MichaelP38995.7519791667

[quote]Then there's the usual suspects, like the Zootman and others here who probably carry all of the above.[/quote]

Suspect?? - I thought they convicted that guy!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I just got the nicest Red Cedar from AC woods. Kinda like stripped.... gorgeous!!! Great tap tone!!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

no one's mentioned engleman as a fingerstyle choice yet. my last build with that on top and paduak b and s was a fingerstyle monster - great tone with lots of sustain. all that from just a 15 1/4" OM. got the top from ed at acoustic woods. pretty big bang for the buck from those guys.
phil

Shane at High Mountain offers Master WRC... I was lucky enough to get a gift set from Shane and let me tell you, this stuff is mint!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I'll second the call for englemann spruce. To my ears the tone is a bit more complex than sitka.

What I like about the Lutz is that is is a hybrid between Sitka and Ennglman and has the best of both worlds

...so the answer to Walter's question is: It depends!    

And let's not forget European spruce.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

The top wood can be any of the above samples.
What will make the guitar sound its best is the top thickness(es) -the brace stiffness and the angle of the neck which will dictate the height of the saddle and thickness of the bridge.
I like Lutz-it will improve with age like the other spruces but has less runout than Engelmann. But has all the attributes of Sitka BUT has less mass so it responds better .
Cedar has to be a bit over built to last for many years -this can destroy its tone capacity.
ALSO cedar will let go of a glue joint faster than any other wood I work with.
Which could cause trouble down the road if an aggressive player gets the guitar!
Mike Collins


collinsguitars.com

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Mike Collins

Actually I forgot the most important thing!
Each piece wood has to be either tap tested and flexed by hand and let intuition help you to decide the use for that top or- go the scientific way and test all your tops for deflection and weight and then decide which wood to use!

Mike Collins

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Mike Collins

Thanks for that great input Mike, i have a red cedar top that i received as a gift from Shane, i thinned it down a bit too much, i now know what i'll do with the bracing that will go with it!

Serge

[QUOTE=Mike Collins] the height of the saddle and thickness of the bridge.
collinsguitars.com[/QUOTE]
Mike, Can you comment a little about the effects of the bridge thickness and saddle height? Especially in steel string.

Thanks....

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Bridge thickness of course will have allot to do with your final saddle height off the top.
If you have a very low neck angle the saddle may need to be only 10mm off the top and -a neck set to far back may need 15mm which makes for a thick bridge to make sure of saddle support .
I thick bridge is a heavy bridge than can dampen the top.
Most factory bridges are 10mm and this is a good place to start.
A fingerpicking guitar that needs to be quick in response will usually do better with a lite bridge and a saddle not to far off the top so it's balanced and warm.
A tall saddle and thick bridge works best for flat picking and can drive the top much more because of the string angle and pull on the top.(torque)
.
I've made them with different heghts just to see what worked for my sound and the 8 to 10mm bridge is good with a saddle 2 to 3mm above that.

Mike CollinsMike Collins38997.7857291667

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Mike Collins

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Walter, I'm going to sound like a Sitka pimp, but it'll do whatever you want it to do. I've had good success with WRC, but my best luck, and most satisfying instruments, were built with Sitka. I like hearing little "bells" going off when a guitar is fingerpicked, and Sitka delivers.
Let me also add that it's good to see you around.
I'm Happy to be around although it's not easy sometimes. Thank you for your thoughts Steve, it is most appreciated.

Steve[/QUOTE] WalterK38997.8136458333